It’s “D-Day For Freedom”.
Or how about “Obama’s Waterloo moment”.
The rhetoric is getting thick from obstructionist Republicans who can’t stand the idea of insurance companies getting rich while millions of people have no access to affordable health care.
From the Politico:
“I can almost guarantee you this thing won’t pass before August, and if we can hold it back until we go home for a month’s break in August,” members of Congress will hear from “outraged” constituents, South Carolina Senator Jim DeMint said on the call, which was organized by the group Conservatives for Patients Rights.
“Senators and Congressmen will come back in September afraid to vote against the American people,” DeMint predicted, adding that “this health care issue Is D-Day for freedom in America.”
This is a huge battle. Harry Truman tried to create a national health care program during his term. He failed. Lyndon Johnson tried and passed Medicaid and Medicare back in 1965. We all remember Bill Clinton’s efforts and the “Harry and Louise” efforts.
It’s time for all of us who support this president and believe our health care system is broken, expensive and in need of an overhaul to rally around this proposal and in the words of Larry The Cable Guy: “Get Er Done”.
Eburger, you have a problem with math. Dems hold a 60% to 40% majority in the senate, a 59% to 41% majority in the house, and a 100% to ZIP in the White House. If you can’t pass a bill, don’t blame “obstructionist Republicans”…blame “Democrats who finally figured out we’ll go broke”
This is so typical modern democrats. Shove something through before the voters realize what you are doing. I should think a true representative would want to go home and here what the voters have to say. Would you please quit telling me what is good for me. I am capable of deciding.
National health care is a disaster in Canada and the Democrats would love to shove a failed system down our throats.
How do you know the voters don’t want a solution, Stuneros?
How is it being shoved down your throat when it is nothing more than dialogue at this point?
Did you contact your representative? If your not talking to them, then you’re lazy. What is “Doc” saying about health care?
Whoopsie! He is covered by Joe Taxpayer so no worries for him. That is socialism. OMG!
How is it a disaster in Canada? I know several Canadians who want to keep the concept of single payer. 50 million Americans without health care in the U.S is a disaster. Go to the local ER and ask how many are there because they cannot afford insurance. The republicans who claim everything is ok are the do nothing party.
It is broke.
Having a police department is socialism.
Having a fire department is socialism.
Having the ability to get a tuition-free public education is socialism.
Having good roads is socialism.
Having a military force is socialism.
Oh noes…socialism is ruining this country!
Corie,
You’re right, socialism is always better. Let’s have the government buy all our clothes. And groceries. Don’t forget to have them grow everything necessary for those groceries too. Of course, the US government should be running companies like google and microsoft. These guys do an OK job, but seriously, who are we kidding, the feds could do it way better. Whoops, almost forgot, it is absolutely necessary that the government provide everyone in this country a brand new home, since housing is a right too you know!
Health care is just the next thing on the list that government must take over in order for all our hopes and dreams to come true.
I luv socialism!
Mainstreeter, the number used most often is 45 million. More than 40% of those are able to pay for insurance and choose not to. They would rather have a new iphone or a newer car. 15% are illegally in this country and do not deserve any more than emergency care ( which they are receiving). Many more are only temporarily without coverage but are still counted. So you get down to 4-5 million people without health insurance, not health care, insurance. Locally they get care from fine organizations like Neighborhood Health and the Farmworkers Clinic.
Obama wants to create the biggest entitlement ever to solve the problem of about 2% of the population. It is over the top big government for a relatively small problem.
Government has repeatedly shown it cannot manage this kind of program and we cannot afford it. He cannot tax enough to pay for this.
We speak of a 7 or 8 trillion deficit brought on by Obama – that is the budget deficit and does not mention 45 trillion in unfunded commitments to social security, medicare etc.
Canada’s system of rationing and control is not what I want. You do not choose your doctor, surgeon, hospital etc. All these decisions are made for you by a bureaucrat. Long waits for simple procedures because the system can’t afford the cost. Do a little research, it is not a popular system and it is bleeding the federal budget dry.
Do some home work – Obama is doing us no favors.
stuneros stuneros, stuneros,
I did some home work, you don’t tell us where your figures of 40% of the 50 million who supposedly can afford the premiums come from. No one is buying cars right now dummy. You haven’t considered that most people who still work don’t qualify for the local clinics because they make too much. That leaves them with a non employer sponsored health plan that can be as much as rent. Like I said, waiting to go to the ER only drives up the costs across the board which is socialized already.
“Government has repeatedly shown it cannot manage this kind of program and we cannot afford it.”
Your saying VA and Medicare doesn’t work? I have yet to find someone willing to trade their benefits for profit.
Did you know the GDP for health care in this country is 15%
In Canada it is 7
Explain that?
If you don’t want the Canadian system fine, people up there and in Europe can still buy a plan so knock yourself out. We ration health care here, it doesn’t work. For what we blew in Iraq, we could have started a single payer plan. Republicans like death.
The Office of the Actuary (OACT) of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services publishes data on total health care spending in the United States, including both historical levels and future projections.[24] In 2007, the U.S. spent $2.26 trillion on health care, or $7,439 per person, up from $2.1 trillion, or $7,026 per capita, the previous year.[25] Spending in 2006 represented 16% of GDP, an increase of 6.7% over 2004 spending. Growth in spending is projected to average 6.7% annually over the period 2007 through 2017. Health insurance costs are rising faster than wages or inflation, and medical causes were cited by about half of bankruptcy filers in the United States in 2001.[26]
“medical causes were cited by about half of bankruptcy filers in the United States in 2001.”
That should tell us how ‘great’ this system is working.
Mainstreter…Take a deep breath…that vein in your forehead is sticking out again, and you may not have insurance.
You have a real way of spinning stats there, kid.
“medical causes were cited by about half of bankruptcy filers in the United States in 2001.”
What percentage of their total debt was medical expense? Oh, I guess that slipped your mind, eh?
( I realize that was a question that won’t be answered by you)
Here’s a stat you can explain to us all, Mainstreter…In 2006 and 2007 (my statistics are far more recent than yours) personal bankruptcy rates were HIGHER IN CANADA than in the U.S.
In Canada in 2006, the personal bankruptcy rate was .30%. In the US, it was .20%.
In 2007, Canada was .30%, and the US was .27%. (These are percentages of total population)
It would appear that “free” health care is far from the panacea in terms of fear of bankruptcy you would like us to believe. Perhaps higher tax rates to cover “free crap” contributes too?
“medical causes were cited by about half of bankruptcy filers in the United States in 2001.”
How much more do you need? If it was 49% you’d feel okay about it?
Neal, care to comment on why the GDP is 16% for health care in this country vs other nations?
Mainstreter, Care to comment on why a larger percentage of Canadians file personal bankruptcy than Americans, even though they have “FREE HEALTH INSURANCE”???
Probably because we made it harder to file for “personal” bankruptcy here.
One thing that is important to note is that the laws regarding chapter 7 bankruptcy were made stricter in October of 2005 – so you should make sure that you get new and updated information.
What do you think about 16% of the GDP going for health are in the US?
Actually Neal
Chapter 7 bankruptcies have increased 43% from year end December 31, 2007 to year end December 31, 2008 in the United States.
Half have experienced a serious health problem
half, that’s 50%
Isn’t it ironic that Michael Steele does not know who his health insurance carrier is and the very same Republican congressional representatives in both houses get their health care free from the Naval Hospital in Bethesda! Which I recall is government owned.
Socialism!
The reforms we did in 2005 brought our bankruptcy laws more in line with Canada. So the comparison is indeed valid.
Medical debts accounted for only 12% to 13% of total debt among American bankruptcy filers who listed medical debt as one of their reasons for bankruptcy.
During the same time period you used (Dec 2007-Dec 2008) Canadian personal bankruptcies increased 50.6%, considerably greater than the increase in the US. So what’s your point there, Mainstreter?
I got this from a teacher friend in Abbotsford, BC.
Words you’ll never hear in the Canadian health care system
1. “Out of network”
There are no “networks” in Canada. Doctors and hospitals are not affiliated with private insurance companies. Doctors are private business entities and hospitals are usually run by non-profit boards or regional health associations.
2. “COBRA”
Health coverage is NOT tied to your place of employment in any way. So any COBRA-like scheme is unnecessary.
3. “Co-Pay”
The government pays 100% of basic care, 100% of the time. Drugs are not covered, but are subsidized by government to a point. And because of mass buys, discounts are obtained from the drug companies. That’s why their prices are so much lower. Most employers offer a drug plan that pays for 100% of drug cost coverage.
4. “monthly premium\deductible”
They don’t consider their health to be the same as their possessions.
5. “waiting for approval”
Doctors are the sole decision makers for health care. NOBODY influences or delays their decisions, warns them of costs or prevents them from giving treatment for any reason.
6. “Government interference”
The provincial government in each province PAYS for whatever services doctors provide. No questions asked. Unless the procedure is not medically necessary or unwarranted, doctors cannot deny basic care – by law.
7. “Health insurance lobby”
There are NO insurance companies for basic care, only companies for providing insurance for travelers. No money to be made here.
8. “bureaucracy”
When Canadians visit a hospital or doctor’s office, they walk in, get treated, walk out. No “applications”, “registrations” or any other kind of paperwork is required. They never have to talk to a single “government official” or wait for a “judgment”.
9. “PRE-EXISTING CONDITION”
This is such a foreign concept to them. A Canadian’s usual reaction to the explanation of this term is astonishment.
10. “rescission”
Your health insurance won’t be cancelled when you need it most, i.e., when you get sick. That’s the whole point of having insurance, isn’t it?
11. “individual rates”
There are no individual rates based on your age or medical status. The premium for everyone in a provincial plan is the same.
12. “uninsurable”
No one is uninsured or uninsurable. Everyone is covered.
13. “profit”
There’s no private insurance companies offering coverage for primary medical care, so there’s no question of profit, no corporate bottom lines to incentivize screwing people out of the medical care they need.
It’s a shame something as transparent, straightforward, and non-bureaucratic as the universal single-payer system Canadians and other citizens of developed nations enjoy is not even being considered by Obama and the Dems in congress. More Americans may get health care insurance out of these health care reforms, at a more affordable price, and that’s a good thing. But true bold change isn’t even being proposed, just tinkering with the existing system, and I can’t help thinking that it’s a shame. Opportunities for sweeping change don’t come often, and this one is being missed.
From Bankruptcy Canada
(after Loss of Job and Divorce) The last on our list of leading causes of bankruptcy in Canada, are medical problems; they often can and do lead to a lot of financial problems. Fortunately, in Canada most of our medical expenses, such as hospital care, are covered by the government, unlike in the United States where medical bills for uninsured Americans are a leading cause of bankruptcy in America.
However, if you get sick or injured, and you are off work for a number of months, even with medical insurance your income is reduced, and that makes it more difficult to service your debts.
And from the July 4 issue of Business Week:
Medical problems caused 62% of all personal bankruptcies filed in the U.S. in 2007, according to a study by Harvard researchers. And in a finding that surprised even the researchers, 78% of those filers had medical insurance at the start of their illness, including 60.3% who had private coverage, not Medicare or Medicaid.
But medically bankrupt families with private insurance reported average out-of pocket medical bills of $17,749, while the uninsured’s bills averaged $26,971. Of the families who started out with insurance but lost it during the course of their illness, medical bills averaged $22,658. “For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection. Most of us have policies with so many loopholes, co-payments, and deductibles that illness can put you in the poorhouse,” said lead author Himmelstein. “Unless you’re Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy.”
The point is, boys, you may be feeling smug that the insurance you have is just fine, and the rest of the (uninsured) population can just go pee up a rope. But you should hope and pray you don’t face some catastrophic illness.
And then, we could ponder the fact that medical reasons were the primary factor in 15% of bankruptcy filings by Canadian seniors (age 55 and older)
We can statistic each other to death here. The fact remains as I stated in answer to the original title of this blog. IF IT DOESN’T PASS, IT’S BECAUSE DEMS CHOSE TO VOTE IT DOWN.
Trying to ram this down our throats by August simply shows that the administration doesn’t want anyone to know what they voted for. It’s huge legislation. It deserves time to be understood, and then voted upon intelligently.
It’s not being “rammed” You can keep your PPO or HMO. Guess what Neal? Your rates are going to go up as the insurance companies cannot compete on a plan where everyone is in the same risk pool, nor do they like competition, nor did they ever want it. Tough shit, huh?
Our government has never been shown to be more efficient at anything than private enterprise. Anyone who would pay 435 bucks for a hammer, 640 bucks for a toilet seat or 7600 bucks for a coffee maker has no business telling us how much money they will save us.
Since 1970, Medicare and Medicaid’s combined per-patient costs have risen from $344 to $8,955, while the combined per-patient costs of all other US health care have risen from $364 to $7,119.
Medicare and Medicaid used to cost $20 less per patient than other care. Now they cost $1,836 more. (And that’s even without the Medicare prescription-drug benefit.)
In fact, if the costs of Medicare and Medicaid had risen only as much as the costs of all other health care in America, then, instead of costing a combined $807 billion last year, they would’ve cost a combined $606 billion. That savings of $201 billion would have amounted to more than $1,750 per American household last year alone.
if you hear somebody saying, we can’t afford healthcare reform, because…if they use any of these words: “socialization,” or “government control of your healthcare decisions,” or if they mention “England,” “France,” or “Canada,” you can be assured that they are not telling you the truth. They are trying to scare you away from a plan that can make a real difference, not just in American families, but in the American economy as a whole.
Yes Mainstreter, I agree. If this were to pass, it WOULD make a real difference in the American economy…That’s why I’m totally against it.
Neal, Unfortunately, private insurers deal with fraud and waste mostly by ignoring it and factoring it into their charges. Medicare is specifically required to investigate fraud and has the power of the federal government to do so, so they do often find fraud. The few serious investigations of fraud in private insurance — there was one a few years ago by a newspaper in New Jersey — have found significant incidence of fraud.
No one is doing much about waste. Waste, which predominantly takes the form of overuse of high tech management and of preventable errors, is largely ignored by all payers. People who are serious about error prevention and quality assurance tear their hair out because of the lack of interest. No one except the Dartmouth people seems to have much interest in overuse.
Many of the administrative costs for private insures are hidden in third-party administrators, which are often for-profit affiliated companies owned by the parent non-profit or not-for-profit. It’s a way to inflate costs without taking responsibility: “The TPA rates went up! It’s not us!” Outlaw TPAs, and you’ll be saving some serious money.
If socialized medicine is so terrible, why do we give it to our military?
Amen Corie!! You’re soo smart!
I’d think you cut-and-pasted that, Mainstreter…except for the misspellings. Nobody else is that ignorant.