It seems to me in the past when Boise – Cascade operated the mill along the freeway that burned on Saturday that they always had sprinklers going on top of the log piles to keep them wetted down I suppose as protection against possible fires. Once the mill was sold to the present operators I have not seen the sprinklers although the log piles remain. My question(s)…Why were the new owners not using the sprinklers? Who let them off the hook for that kind of fire supression? Did someone drop the ball?
We sure know what happens when the rules are relaxed… where is the ultimate responsibility? City Council? Fire Marshall? no one? Seems like a no brainer to me…. constant water on the logs would seem to reduce potential fires. I am sure there is more to it than I understand so would some of the more enlightened sages weigh in on this? Dave seems to know just about everything perhaps he has the answer?????
Hey gizmo-
A yard manger for BC told me it was more for keeping the logs from warping in the extreme temperatures than for fire prevention. Warping before those logs even make it out of the yard can cost the company a couple of million bucks. Fire prevention was an added benefit, but not the priority.
OK, Thank you, but it would seem that the added benefit of fire protection would be sufficient reason enough to continue the practice. No? And given the heat of the hot summer sun that protection still seems to be a no brainer, but maybe I am off base on this one. I have to wonder though if continuing the practice of watering the logs would have made any difference on Saturday??????
He said Boise could care less if the inventory burned up, because it was all insured. That was quite a few years ago.
gizmo
I had a conversation with the property developer a week ago and asked him similar questions. He explained that the logs were sprinkled while the mill was operating for quality of the finished product and not for fire protection. He said the log piles are not a threat to spontaneous combustion and they were working on spacing them farther apart. I also asked why there were so many logs and that I’ve never seen that many piled there. (I live 3 blocks away the past 27 years)He explained that they needed dry logs for chipping and that’s the only remaining capability left of the mill and that since natural gas prices have dropped steeply that they haven’t been able to sell chips and meanwhile the logs they’ve contracted for keep coming in, building up the extreme excess in inventory.
This last fire (the third this year) did not begin in a log pile. However, due to the quantity of the logs on the property I would conclude that there is a clear fire hazard. A little bit of wind showed that this past weekend.
Thanks for the information guys. It certainly is reassuring and does make one feel good about concern for the common good and being a good neighbor to know such an attitude governs the business: screw the community…we are insured.. nice. Is this what is called keeping government out of business and letting free enterprise control the market? makes one wonder…..
You ask for non-political answers, yet all your arguments go to politics…Better make up your mind, Gizmo.
First of all, as someone who has a better than average understanding of the lumber business (we used 100,000 sheets of plywood a year plus unknown large quantities of dimensional lumber) I have some insight into this.
First of all, who among you are really silly enough to believe a yard manager knows the inner workings of the head office/insurance company relationship?
Boise Cascade never wanted to burn down “because they were insured”. Insurance never covers the costs of rebuilding a thriving company. I know. We burned down once.
In this particular case, if the product had to be dry, then sprinkling wasnt an option. The fire was an accident. If it needed attention before hand, that would surely seem to be in the purview of the fire department. If the City Council stepped in, you would have called that “micro managing”…and it would have been.
I see by his last line Gizmo won’t be happy until Guvmint owns all the businesses. I guess that must be somewhere in the “Little Woodchuck’s Socialist Democrat Handbook”
I did ask for a political comment. I was wondering if the situation was political or not.
I did not ever think that BC wanted to burn down because they were insured, but rather that the comment showed an attitude of so, if it does… it wont cost us.
I don’t want or expect the government to own all the businesses – just provide oversight so that uncontrolled greed and avarice does not trump the common good and reap profits at the expense of the common good. We have a long history of what happens when the free enterprise system is out of control and not at all regulated, ie railroads, trucking, food industry etc. Also if there is self control and monitoring, no abuse or wrong doing then there is not a need for the government to step in. It is not unlike child rearing – if you don’t control yourself, I will.
oops. I mean I DID NOT ask for a political comment, but was wondering if politics played a role in the process. sorry for the typo.
Also todays HR has some interesting comments on the issue of sprinklers and what their presence and function might have meant in this situation. Again, sorry for the typo…..
reply to gizmo- —”I am sure there is more to it than I understand”—***really?
—Dave seems to know just about everything perhaps he has the answer?????—***are you referring to me?
Our radio station motto is THE SOURCE because we try hard to get to the answers and the truth and we don’t sound off unless we know what we are talking about. So if that was a compliment…thanks, we work for it…if it was sarcastic , then I guess you don’t like the answers or our confidence in delivering what we say…either way here’s what we have heard–
When the mill was operating, the water was to prevent the logs from drying out and cracking in the heat…cracked logs don’t generate quality lumber. When the mill shut down, the pumps and pipes were pulled and sold. The new tenant was allegedly going to be a short term operator so fire suppression wasn’t a main concern and since they were chipping logs, not producing lumber, they preferred dry as opposed to wet timber.
The logs didn’t spontaneously combust but supposedly a pile of bark and dusty debris did and then spread to the logs. Sounds like hosing down the bark and byproducts would make more sense the soaking the logs. That’s all I Know
Thank you, Dave. Yes I did refer to you but no offense intended. It just seems that you very often have a comment or information on most things posted here – I did not pose it as a point for debate or discussion really. And yes I was sure there was more to it than I understood… that was the point of bringing up the topic – to learn and understand and I figured you just might have some information.
But I am a bit puzzled still. Although your information is enlightening a quote from todays HR does not seem to mesh “Sprinkling the logs destined for chipping would have made chipping easier and avoided much of the fire danger, the former employee said”. I am guessing that there is more to it than perhaps any of us citizen folks understand…..but it will come out eventually. Nevertheless, thank you for offering what you know.
Reply to gizmo….
Sorry Gizmo…don’t mean to be defensive but as a reader here you know I often come under my unfair share of sarcasm and attack. I don’t mean to come off as a know it all either…I just see stuff written here that is incomplete or way off point and feel compelled to fill in a little.
I would expect former mill workers to know best about wet logs …but I was told that wet chips were heavier and cost more to transport, but I’m no woodsman so I called a Canadian chipper manufacturer and they said it really didn’t matter…wetter wood has less dust and may be safer. Up to 50% moisture is ok and there isn’t a problem with transportation….he said they are shut down in canada because Americans aren’t building homes…instead of a log pile fire he joked that it should have taken a few houses! Funny guy…and now we know.
76” DISC CHIPPER
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quality chip as a result of the carbide maintaining its edge longer. The 76” Chipper is the heavyweight contender in wastewood or whole log chipping – …
http://www.carmanahdesign.com/…/chip…/76%20Disc%20Chipper%20ENGLISH.pdf – Similar
I listened this morning to KIT, 2 guys and one woman talking about how certain foods made them fat. There was a lot of source there.
mainstreeter…you are a juvenile and a punk and a jerk…you offer nothing of substance…and while i support your right to be all those things and more —which i am sure you are— its important for someone to tell you that from time to time, so allow me to descend to your level and tell you what an absolute waste of time you are to anybody on anyside of any issue.
Thanks…I feel much better.
You just did get punked by me. Thanks for playing
Thanks for clarifying, Gizmo.
And yes, government oversight is useful and necessary in some industry, especially where the safety of others is concerned. Your comment about “free enterprise” appeared to be negative to “free enterprise”. As our country thrives on free enterprise, I have a tendency to defend the practice.
My biggest exposure to government regulation came from OSHA/WISHA. I found them to be a pain in the ass. Employee safety is an important thing in the workplace, but much of the regs are idiotic and some are downright dangerous themselves. I have to wonder why they exempted themselves (federal employees INCLUDING the OSHA inspectors) from compliance.
And yes, Dave…even the folks on here on the same side of the aisle as Streeter know what a waste of air he is. We can only hope he contributes more in real life. Doubtful, though.
Neal, don’t get me wrong. I am al in favor of free enterprise but along with it comes self regulation, self control with responsible citizenship. It is when unscrupulous (sp) greed and avarice, anything for a buck at the expense of the common good enters the picture that I am thankful the government gets involved. It is sort of like rearing a child: either you control yourself….or I will take control. Unfortunately most of the laws,s rules and regulations come about as a result of of irresponsible behaviors, selfish abuse and greed.
I agree, Gizmo. The government oversight makes a lot of things safer. Food industry comes to mind. I would think the rules have come about for the reasons you state because it’s sometimes difficult to foresee what some fools will do, ergo we react rather than act. Nature of the beast.
Automatically thinking something is safer or better or more efficient because the government is involved can be a slippery slope, however.
Gizmo, been a pleasure swapping ideas with you today.
Neal, you are totally correct about the slippery slope, but then if there we honest, dedicated and socially responsible business persons conducting business with a moral and ethical foundation we would not need to worry about the government getting involved, would we?
And food safety? wow if anyone has read the Jungle by Upton Sinclair one would really understand the need for government oversight, ditto on the railroads, etc, which of course makes a case in the present discussion and debate on health care. Someone should be providing oversight on the Insurance and pharmaceutical industries!!!!! er as well as banking etc. There does not seem to be a whole lot of self control or concern for the public.
Having been a long-time member of the downtown Yakima Rotary Club, I can safely say that I personally knew a large percentage of area businessmen that had and still have the moral and ethical standards necessary to conduct business without a large amount of government oversight. Yakima is lucky to have them.
I think you make a big mistake demonizing with a large paintbrush.
And government oversight occurs a great deal in insurance and pharmaceuticals. Every state has an insurance commissioner (I assume). Both states I live in can and do regulate rates. The nice thing about this country…if you think someone is making ungodly profit….buy stock. I do.
It is good to know that Yakima Businesspersons are conducting business in an ethical and moral manner. If they are hit with regulations and oversight rules it is due to others who have not comported themselves in such a manner, and that is unfortunate that all must pay for the sins of others, but it happens all the time and not just in the business world.
Sorry but for me buying stock in a company that is abusing the system putting profit over the common good and/or reasonable practices then I could never let myself become part of the problem, never! for then I would be participating in the unethical/immoral behavior. I own no stock in tobacco companies, pharmaceuticals, insurance companies rapacious abusers of third world populations or any other company dealing in items that conflict with my values. I seem to do ok without participating in what I criticize, in fact I have been doing better than most:)
Your constant disdain of insurance companies can be remedied…self insure.
Interestingly, down here in Florida, we have a state run insurance company for homeowners. I had to leave them when their rates got too high.
Yes, self-insuring for health care is working well for 50 million American citizens.
Gizmo, perhaps we should all invest in KBR. They took shortcuts in their government contracting to save the shareholders millions, like not building according to code in Baghdad, or hiring and shipping in hundreds of undocumented foreign workers in post-Katrina New Orleans. If you’re a KBR shareholder, you should try and overlook the fact that your portfolio got fatter as U.S. soldiers were being electrocuted in their showers, and unemployed N.O. residents were denied reconstruction jobs. These are just some examples of how we can all take advantage of some of that “ungodly profit”- we just need to tune out that nagging conscience first.
That’s what we call competition, Neal. You were free to take your business elsewhere. Sounds a bit like the public option in the Dems health care plan. Hmmmmm.
Not at all, SeaGal..The public option is advertised by the Dems as being cheaper and more efficient so as to drive the prices down. Being more expensive than private insurance certainly doesn’t do that.
And yes, Drew…you are correct. I missed out on investing in Guardian Marine International when Patty Murray got it the earmarks to build boats nobody wanted and the Redmond firm that made high tech battle gear the Army rejected. Course Senator Murray was rewarded with donations…all is well in the Dem world. Or is that Dim?
Once again, neal is wrong, because the public option IS cheaper than what is currently available. Not according to Fox, who chose Rick Scott to explain it to neal. FNC wants us to believe a guy who steals billions from the government, and then is giving neal advice on how to save taxpayer money on health care. neal may trust a guy like Rick Scott, but nobody else should.
Drew, if you’d ever scrolled up and actually READ what was typed, there’s a slim chance you’d quit saying such stupid shit.
I was discussing state run homeowners insurance being higher than private here. Seagal said that was like the Dems “public option”…I questioned that.
I see what you mean neal. You were talking about where you are, in Florida. So what are you doing commenting on a blog about eastern WA? Aren’t you supposed to be following your own criticisms and minding your own Florida business?
But I will stand by what I said, about how the cons want to leave health insurance the same: inaccessible to millions, simply because they can’t afford it. You either fit into that category, or you don’t. It depends on what Fox news tells you to think.
But i couldn’t help but notice that your first comments on gizmo’s blog was an attack: gizmo is clearly wanting to know the story behind why the logs aren’t kept wet like they used to be, and he also indicated he didn’t think it was an actual political issue. We have learned on here that cons like yourself do not give points to people for honesty, but you do like to attack, especially when you have formed a premature assumption, as you did here. The BC yard manager was sharing an opinion on insurance, and I passed it on. What is it about you cons that you hate to hear opinions from others? I never said that BC “wanted to burn down because they were insured”, and neither did that yard manager. You can follow your own advice and read before you post. Read twice in fact, and take some notes.
And gizmo never said anything about government taking over business, as you are suggesting. He is clearly asking if there was some departure from local government oversight, because he knows that government oversight is much more likely to keep businesses, employees, employers, and the community safe, especially from businesses that have chosen to circumvent the rules and regs that keep us safe, just to make more profit.
Unlike you, Drew, I’m a legal (and real) resident of the city of Yakima.
I have standing…you never will.
Drew,
You got it right on. I have stayed out of the commentary on purpose to observe how one can take an innocent information seeking question and fly off into a bs response not at all relevant to the original inquiry.
You got it “He is clearly asking if there was some departure from local government oversight, because he knows that government oversight is much more likely to keep businesses, employees, employers, and the community safe, especially from businesses that have chosen to circumvent the rules and regs that keep us safe, just to make more profit. ”
and that is the same reasoning behind what Neal calls the disdain of the insurance companies. Unfortunately there are many who would sneak around and manipulate for personal gain at the expense of the common good. I am glad to have oversight by the government, for it is better than none at all, for it is pretty obvious that if the players play according to the rules and regulations there is not much for a referee to do. If the insurance companies, drug companies etc truly had the interests of the people at heart and not after the almighty dollar at the expense of others then there would be little need for oversight. It gets more and more clear why the republicans so detest government involvement – it messes with their opportunities to screw the people.
Now Neal, fly off with that one……….
Gee, Gizmo… wasn’t long ago in this thread I told you what a pleasure it was swapping ideas with you. I see the pleasure was all mine.
And Drew…Your message from the foreman was:
“Boise could care less if the inventory burned up, because it was all insured”.
That isn’t phrased as an opinion…that’s phrased as if he knew. Are you silly enough to believe he knew what percentage to value coverage they were carrying?
Do you know what’s required in this state for coverage to be full?
I see you do a great backpedal…
Sorry Ladies and Gentlemen, and neal: I did not put in a disclaimer on the yard manager’s statements being either fact or his opinion. My first comment was the first one to answer gizmo’s basic questions, and everyone else followed with pretty much the same answer. You obviously are struggling with this, and for this I am not sorry- you’re just going to have to deal with that.
It is still a bad day to be a republican.
“The fire was an accident…” A fire marshal in Portland years ago called an unknown origin the “mortgage rubbing up against the insurance policy”